[This story contains major spoilers from the Wheel of Time season three finale, “He Who Comes With the Dawn.”]

It’s hard to surprise an audience that already knows what’s coming. That’s not a particularly new challenge for TV shows adapted from beloved book franchises like Prime Video’s The Wheel of Time. But that doesn’t stop its showrunner Rafe Judkins from trying. 

Many of the events of season three’s narratively packed finale, which debuted Thursday, are entirely expected, but others will leave more than a few fans in shock. After making the decision to play out a key battle in the third season’s penultimate episode, the finale, “He Who Comes With the Dawn” does the work of both settling some major storylines and then setting up even more. 

Across the episode, much of the series’ leading ensemble makes pivotal choices in their larger Wheel of Time journeys. Nynaeve (Zoë Robins), in a literal last-breath move, finally taps into her explosive connection with the One Power. Mat (Dónal Finn) similarly has a near-death experience while having an encounter with a magical fox-like creature, who grants several ominous wishes and leaves him with a memento. Rand (Josha Stradowski) finally embraces his fate as the Car’a’carn, but Egwene (Madeleine Madden) isn’t so quick to bend the knee to him. 

And while Moiraine (Rosamund Pike) fights to hold back Lanfear (Natasha O’Keeffe) on behalf of Rand, it is ultimately — in a shift from the books — Siuan (Sophie Okonedo) who meets a deadly fate. By episode’s end and alongside more Forsaken plotting, Elaida (Shohreh Aghdashloo) seizes the Amyrlin Seat, and Siuan is sentenced to death by the Aes Sedai she once led. 

Judkins spoke to THR ahead of the season three finale about tying up some plotlines and launching others; what becomes of the White Tower, Mat and Egwene; and the potential of a season four. 

***

This finale is action-packed, but really dark — arguably the series’ darkest episode yet. How did you settle on this being the season’s end?

We are always playing a little bit with audience expectations. You have to, especially when you only have eight episodes. We’re hoping people will see episode seven and be like, “OK, they’re doing the traditional fantasy thing where they do their big battle in the second to last episode, and then episode eight is just the placeholder setting the table for the next season.” We want the audience to think that going into the finale. There is also a lot of place-setting for the next season, but we’re doing a shitload of other stuff too, and have some really hugely climactic moments for some of the best-loved characters in the series.

Nynaeve has this absolutely mind-blowing, epic moment and then you’re like, “Wait, there’s 40 minutes left.” We want the audience to feel like they can’t predict what we are going to do next. I think it’s one of the best things about the Wheel of Time book series. It breaks structure sometimes in a way that you want to keep going. At its core, that’s one of the best things about TV. You want to keep going when you can’t predict the next move.

We see that the White Tower has been infiltrated and compromised in a somewhat unsettling, even scary way. At this point, can viewers trust the Tower at all going forward? 

That’s really the idea of and why the White Tower coup — Elaida’s coup — in the books is such an iconic moment. As much as you don’t know what the Tower is going to do, similar to our world today, you feel there are certain rules of decorum and sensibility that are going to hold. That this is an institution, and that institutions can hold. What Elaida does is she says, “I am going to leverage every fucking rule in this Tower to its utmost advantage and this institution may not survive it.” And she thinks she’s doing it to — she’s not a darkfriend. That’s the best thing about Elaida. She actually thinks she’s doing the right thing for the world. But what she has done hopefully for the audience is at the end of this season, they don’t know if they can trust the institution of the White Tower anymore and what it’s going to do next. So could the White Tower be the greatest threat to our characters moving forward? Yes, it could.

You’ve introduced a number of the Forsaken across three seasons, but it’s very obvious there are more waiting in the wings. After this finale, how many more of these beings can we expect to see in the next go, if you get it?

We’ve definitely laid the pieces for a few Forsaken to appear in next season who are new and maybe not so new that you will be excited to see onscreen. I think I can say that much. The interplay of the Forsaken is really exciting and interesting in the books, and I think we want to continue that in the show and continue to meet new members of this group.

Natasha O’Keeffe (Lanfear), Rosamund Pike (Moiraine Damodred) Prime Video

There are a lot of very big moments in this finale, like Nynaeve fully connecting with and tapping into the One Power, which you brought up. Another one is the fate of Siuan and Moiraine. Notably, Moiraine defies her fate and survives. Siuan, however, is seemingly killed by her fellow Aes Sedai in the Tower. Can you talk about what happened here and what becomes of them? 

Part of their relationship that is important and that we tried to set up in episode five is this idea that their relationship is bigger than this life. Their relationship is bigger than what happens in this moment. There’s something really beautiful to that and something that only The Wheel of Time can do, because it’s inherent in the book series. We’re adapting that these women don’t all make it to the final battle. So it was important to us, especially with a history of lesbians being killed onscreen and knowing that we wanted to forefront this relationship from the beginning, to see that this relationship is about more than just this life to the two of them, and that relationship will continue regardless of them dying.

I think that’s really important and beautiful. I’m wrecked by it. I mean, I sobbed the last day Sophie was on set. We all did. But I do think what’s beautiful about them is that their relationship is about something more and, if the show continues, it’s not the final scene we intend to have between the two of them. I guess I can say that much.

In this episode, Rand finally accepts who he is and there’s a moment where everybody but Egwene kneels to him. With Rand embracing this really complicated, deadly power, what is the implication of Egwene’s resistance in that moment? 

This season for the two of them is very much about going from this place of unity to this place of: They love each other as you love people that you grew up with, but Egwene is not a character who is going to just fall in line. She will never be. What we wanted the final image of the season to be is Rand standing in his power, understanding both the darkness and the light that’s within him and knowing that he has to be both of those things. And Egwene being the only one who doesn’t bow to him. Earlier in the episode, also, Lanfair says something interesting to Rand. She basically says: “In your last life, you left me because I was the only one who wouldn’t bow to you.” 

So for Lanfear and Egwene, these two characters who’ve been in conflict throughout the season, suddenly in the final episode you’re actually seeing there’s a thread that connects them. We view every relationship in the show as having this balance and, who is the balance to the Dragon Reborn? We believe it’s Egwene. You can go deep into the theories online from book fans, but there is this idea that there is a female balance to the Dragon Reborn and that it exists in Egwene. You can see in her eyes at the end of the season that she’s willing to stop Rand if she needs to, and that’s a very new place for her to be. It sets up a lot of really amazing stories that we haven’t seen before that can come in future seasons.

Mat, per usual, really goes for a ride in this episode — including a near-death experience and a frightening run-in with a wish-granting creature. During that encounter, he accidentally wishes for some things. What might those wishes imply for Mat and the larger Wheel of Time universe? 

The implications for this exchange are huge moving forward, and I think we’ve done a little hint to it. There’s a fox head medallion on Mat’s chest at the end. Fans of the books know what that means. Hopefully people who aren’t fans of the books have registered that what happened in that world with that Fox Eelfinn creature is meaningful for what’s going to happen for Mat moving forward. It’s one of the most important scenes for him in the entire book series, so we knew we had to hit on it.

In the books that happens in Rhuidean actually, because he’s there with Rand. But we always intended to have it happen like this, to have it be just as much of a side swipe as it is in the books by again interrupting structure and how you think the show’s going to go when Mat steps through that door frame. Hopefully it leaves the audience thinking they can’t predict what’s going to happen next.

The show hasn’t yet been renewed, and so much is laid out and left open with this finale, it’s daunting. Robert Jordan’s series is so expansive, but TV shows getting extended runs or proper endings is increasingly rare. Have you had talks about season four, or other future seasons?  

That is the same thing that I’ve been sort of asking Amazon — what is the end game for the show? I really want to deliver this full series, so how do we best do that? I think one reason we went with Amazon, because we had options of who was going to buy the series when we first went out with it, is that Amazon felt like a place where they do want to invest in shows for the long term. There are not a lot of places doing that anymore. For Wheel of Time, it’s really important for us to be somewhere that does want to invest in shows for the long term and not just for the splash and leave. So I am hopeful that we will get to finish this story. I think it’s a story that in many ways is important because of its length, and because it gets better as it goes. 

The books get better as they go and the show is getting better as it goes. I think we can continue that arc if we’re allowed to continue. But it is different [now]. Television’s moving in a direction where things just come in, splash and leave. But the history of television is that its strength is longform storytelling; that you stick with it and you love these characters and you follow them through 60 to 100 hours. That’s where television has its strength. That’s where it’s better than movies, at telling those kinds of stories. So I’m hopeful for our industry that shows like Wheel of Time do get to tell the whole story. I think it’s important for television. It’s what we do best, and so we should be finishing these stories.

***

The Wheel of Time season three is now streaming on Prime Video.